Legislature(2007 - 2008)

04/02/2008 04:54 PM Senate RES


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04:54:16 PM Start
04:55:03 PM Board of Fisheries Confirmation Hearing
05:52:59 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 2, 2008                                                                                          
                           4:54 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Confirmation Hearings:                                                                                                        
Board of Fisheries                                                                                                              
 John Jensen                                                                                                                    
 Melvin Morris                                                                                                                  
     CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to consider                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN JENSEN                                                                                                                     
Petersburg AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Board of Fisheries nominee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD VOGT, representing himself                                                                                              
Matsu AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointments of both Mr. Jensen                                                               
and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ANDY COUCH, representing himself                                                                                                
Matsu AK                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointments of both Mr. Jensen                                                               
and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
Fairbanks AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed the appointments of  both Mr. Jensen                                                             
and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MELVIN MORRIS                                                                                                                   
Kodiak AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JERRY MCCUNE                                                                                                                    
United Fishermen of Alaska                                                                                                      
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Supported  the reappointment  of  both  Mr.                                                             
Jensen and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HOWARD DELO, representing himself                                                                                               
No address provided                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the  appointment of both Mr. Jensen                                                             
and Mr. Morris.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at 4:54:16  PM. Present at the call to                                                             
order were Senators Green, Stevens, Wagoner and Huggins.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
^Board of Fisheries Confirmation Hearing                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  announced  the Board  of  Fisheries  confirmation                                                               
hearing.  He asked  Mr.  Jensen  to give  the  committee a  quick                                                               
overview  of his  background and  fishing experience  and explain                                                               
why he wants to do this job.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:55:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  JENSEN, Board  of Fisheries  nominee, said  he is  a third-                                                               
generation fisherman and is currently  a commercial fisherman. He                                                               
has  participated  in  fisheries  all around  the  state.  He  is                                                               
currently vice president of the  Board of Fisheries and this will                                                               
be his third term. He believed his  duty as a board member was to                                                               
provide  and maintain  sustainable  fisheries  for all  Alaskans.                                                               
When considering  a change in  regulations, the board  listens to                                                               
public testimony,  considers written  comments before  and during                                                               
the  meetings,  they  receive  advisory  committee  comments  and                                                               
listen to  the ADF&G's reports.  Then they apply  the sustainable                                                               
salmon management  policy. He stated,  "I am  here to do  what is                                                               
right for the resource and not for myself."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD VOGT,  representing himself, said  he lives in  Matsu and                                                               
came to  Alaska in 1971. Everyone  he knew at that  time depended                                                               
on  the fish  and game  in  their freezer  to get  them over  the                                                               
winter. He said he  did this until 1992 when he  had to leave the                                                               
state  and  he  didn't  return  until 2006.  He  found  that  the                                                               
renewable  resource in  the Cook  Inlet area  needs lots  of help                                                               
now. The problem has already been studied and they need to act.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:00:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. VOGT  said the plan  for under-escapement is not  working. He                                                               
said  the  commercial  drift  netters and  set  netters  need  to                                                               
curtail the overtaking of this  renewable resource so that he and                                                               
his grandkids  can enjoy fishing as  he remembers it was,  not as                                                               
it is now. He said comments such  as "We don't care if any salmon                                                               
get to the Susitna River" by  board members cast serious doubt on                                                               
the  unbiased  decisions that  need  to  be  made. He  urged  the                                                               
committee to not reconfirm Mr. Jensen or Mr. Morris.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER asked who he heard make that comment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. VOGT  answered he didn't  hear the comment directly,  but his                                                               
source of information is really reliable.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:02:37 PM                                                                                                                    
ANDY COUCH,  representing himself, Matsu,  said he wanted  to see                                                               
change on the Board of Fisheries  and opposed both Mr. Jensen and                                                               
Mr.  Morris.  They  both  voted to  delete  regulations  for  the                                                               
Northern District  Salmon Management  Plan in  2005 that  in past                                                               
times  had  provided  adequate spawning  sockeyes  to  the  Yetna                                                               
River. After 2005 it had its lowest return of sockeye salmon.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He  related  how management  went  from  conservative to  liberal                                                               
management. The  Matsu Advisory Committee submitted  proposal 138                                                               
that  requested   going  back  to  the   2005  Northern  District                                                               
Management  Plan  that  would  address   the  problem  of  under-                                                               
escapement  to the  Yetna  River,  but when  it  came  up at  the                                                               
subcommittee, Mr.  Jensen, the chair,  didn't spent much  time on                                                               
it and it got  voted down. He wanted the needs  of the other user                                                               
groups to be considered.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:06:57 PM                                                                                                                    
ROD  ARNO, Executive  Director, Alaska  Outdoor Council,  opposed                                                               
the appointments  of both Mr. Jensen  and Mr. Morris. He  said 30                                                               
years  ago the  Board of  Fisheries  lost the  confidence of  the                                                               
people because it  failed to recognize and respond  to change. He                                                               
said sports  charters all over  Alaska have gotten  little relief                                                               
from  the board.  It has  failed to  recognize the  needs of  the                                                               
people and focuses instead on the needs of the industry.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:08:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN joined the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:10:35 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS read  question one from Mr.  Ricky Gease, Executive                                                               
Director,  Kenai Sports  Fishing  Association, to  Mr. Jensen  as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     At the most recent Upper  Cook Inlet Board of Fisheries                                                                    
     meeting,  the  Board  of   Fish  declared  the  Susitna                                                                    
     sockeye salmon  as a stock  of concern in  the Northern                                                                    
     District.  Fish and  Game drafted  the Susitna  Sockeye                                                                    
     Salmon  Action  Plan.   However,  the  only  management                                                                    
     actions for  conservation contained  in that  plan seem                                                                    
     to   have  been   to   liberalize  commercial   fishing                                                                    
     opportunity  in  Cook  Inlet.   Can  you  explain  this                                                                    
     apparent  contradiction and  are  you comfortable  with                                                                    
     it.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. JENSEN responded that the  reason the board provided for more                                                               
fishing  time is  to  prevent the  huge  over-escapements in  the                                                               
Kenai  and  Kasilof  Rivers,  which causes  such  damage  to  the                                                               
resource. At  the same time, they  are managing for at  least the                                                               
low end  of escapement  for the Susitna  system. Those  are three                                                               
things  they can  control to  provide for  a good  fishery and  a                                                               
healthy stock.  In conjunction  with that plan,  there is  also a                                                               
request  for $10  million more  for  studies over  the next  five                                                               
years. Data  indicates the total  Upper Cook Inlet  sport harvest                                                               
from 1977-95  was 385,000 fisher per  year and in 1996-06  has an                                                               
average of  563,000 fish,  a 55 percent  increase in  sport fish.                                                               
That tells him they are getting a lot of fish up there.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He said  there is some  uncertainty in the data  about escapement                                                               
levels going  into those systems  because of the  different types                                                               
of sonar  being used  to collect  it. He has  been told  they are                                                               
getting at least close to their escapement goals.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:13:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER  said one of  the big disagreements at  the board                                                               
was  doing  away  with  the  windows  that  were  time  and  hour                                                               
sensitive  dates for  opening and  closing set  nets on  the east                                                               
side.  He  explained that  the  Upper  Cook  Inlet fish  and  the                                                               
Susitna and Yetna fish, don't come  clear to the east side unless                                                               
a huge  wind blows them  there. They  generally stay more  in the                                                               
middle of the  Inlet. What has been done to  manage that and keep                                                               
the drift fleet  off of them is  to bring the drift  fleet to the                                                               
west side of the corridor.  What  the board did did not take away                                                               
from  the  biologists'  ability  to  put the  drift  fleet  in  a                                                               
corridor and keep them off of  the Susitna fish. It's just a fact                                                               
of life, he said and the board  did not make a mistake by getting                                                               
rid of the windows.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JENSEN agreed. He said the  department would stay as close as                                                               
possible to  the predictable  plan guidelines  as they  were last                                                               
year, but  they would stop  huge over-escapements into  the Kenai                                                               
and the Kasilof Rivers.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:16:20 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS remarked  that one thing Mr. Jensen  said makes him                                                               
nervous  and  that  is  "meet  at   least  the  low  end  of  the                                                               
escapement."  Unfortunately escapement  goals  have been  rounded                                                               
down for  a number of  years and he is  just not looking  for the                                                               
low end.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:16:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MELVIN MORRIS, Board  of Fisheries nominee, Kodiak,  said he came                                                               
here in the  40s. He attended the University  of Alaska Fairbanks                                                               
and  graduated  in 1962  with  Bachelor  of Science  in  Wildlife                                                               
Management.  He worked  for the  Territory for  two summers,  one                                                               
year for  the Division of  Game; he worked for  Alaska Department                                                               
of  Fish and  Game (ADF&G)  for  two years  in the  Arctic-Yukon-                                                               
Kuskokwim region and  went into the Army for two  years. He has a                                                               
total of  eight years with  ADF&G and  ended up being  the Kodiak                                                               
Shellfish Management  biologist. He went  to work in  the seafood                                                               
industry in  1968 and continued in  that for 32 years.  He opened                                                               
M&M Marketing, a sales company and  was appointed to the Board of                                                               
Fisheries in 2003  and reappointed in 2005. He  has been chairman                                                               
for the  last two  years and  vice chair  for one  year. He  is a                                                               
member of the  Stellar Sea Lions' Mitigation Committee  and he is                                                               
co-chair  of the  Joint Protocol  Committee and  chairman of  the                                                               
North Pacific Fisheries Management Council.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:17:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:19:05 PM                                                                                                                    
JERRY  MCCUNE,   United  Fishermen   of  Alaska,   supported  the                                                               
reappointment of both Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said a letter from  the UFA written in March said                                                               
they both show  fairness in listening to the public  and have the                                                               
ability to  analyze complicated  issues. He  asked Mr.  McCune if                                                               
that's how they operate.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MCCUNE replied  yes;  they  have a  lot  of experience  with                                                               
different fisheries  issues all around the  state. His experience                                                               
at  the Cook  Inlet meeting  was that  115 people  were there  to                                                               
testify and all  the board members talked with  all the different                                                               
groups whether  they were sport,  personal use or  commercial. He                                                               
thought Mr. Jensen and Mr. Morris handled the meeting real well.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said he has known  Mr. Morris since 1970; he is a                                                               
fine gentlemen  and well-educated. He  asked him why  some people                                                               
misunderstand him so much.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MORRIS answered  that  everyone  has a  right  to their  own                                                               
opinions. Cook Inlet  has become so controversial,  that it seems                                                               
like  there  is  no  give among  the  stakeholders.  Everyone  is                                                               
looking to improve his piece of  the action. If it doesn't, well,                                                               
he thought  that was the primary  problem. He noted that  the set                                                               
net fishery  has declined by  80 percent  over the last  20 years                                                               
for Chinook;  at the same  time, the sport fishery  has increased                                                               
by 60  percent. He added  that the Sockeye commercial  fishery is                                                               
down  78  percent  and  the  sport fishery  is  up  100  percent.                                                               
"Everybody is looking for a little  more and I don't know where I                                                               
can come up with extra fish."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS  said they  first consider  the resource.  When people                                                               
consider what the  windows were causing, the fact  that they made                                                               
it  possible for  the biologists  to step  in to  the windows  to                                                               
protect from over-escaping  in the Kenai and  the Kasilof Rivers,                                                               
that was  clearly a conservation  move. ADF&G is  clearly worried                                                               
about  smolts coming  out under  a  half gram  in weight  because                                                               
studies show  they won't survive at  that size when they  go into                                                               
salt  water.  They  are  under  10 percent  body  fat  and  ADF&G                                                               
biologists are  very worried  about what  will happen  when these                                                               
fish don't return.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He  explained that  the Yetna/Susitna  was raised  to a  stock of                                                               
yield concern in the Northern  District because for the last five                                                               
years the  harvest had not  reached historical averages.  He said                                                               
the fish  counters are not  working correctly on the  systems and                                                               
that  designation  buys them  time  to  find  out what  the  true                                                               
answers are.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS thanked  him for  his  years of  service to  the                                                               
state.  He  asked him  if  there  is  a misconception  about  M&M                                                               
marketing and to explain what it does.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:26:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. MORRIS  answered that M&M Marketing  provides quality control                                                               
for  a  program  that  Ocean Beauty  Seafoods  has  with  Fortune                                                               
Fisheries Limited  in Canada.  He inspects  fish for  quality for                                                               
things like  skin and  meat color and  freshness. He  watches the                                                               
fish get  packed into ice totes  and then get weighed  and put in                                                               
trucks. Sometimes  he has to  help find trucks for  Ocean Beauty.                                                               
He doesn't buy  or sell any fish and he  doesn't have any control                                                               
over  them  in  any  way either  physically  or  financially.  He                                                               
doesn't even know who catches them.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:28:32 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  read the second  question from Mr. Ricky  Gease is                                                               
as follows:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  Susitna  Sockeye   Salmon  Action  Plan  basically                                                                    
     granted Fish  and Game all the  discretionary power and                                                                    
     flexibility the  department wanted in Upper  Cook Inlet                                                                    
     to successfully  meet salmon escapement goals.  Are you                                                                    
     confident with all the  new management flexibility that                                                                    
     the regional  commercial fisheries manager  has minimum                                                                    
     escapement in the Northern District will be achieved?                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS replied  that while they have an action  plan, it is a                                                               
living document.  It doesn't die  with the  period at the  end of                                                               
the sentence. It is to be  reviewed and may have many changes. He                                                               
has confidence  in the department,  but many questions  are still                                                               
to be answered.  However, he assured them that they  can find out                                                               
what  the  real  escapement  is  and figure  out  what  the  real                                                               
escapement goals should be.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if he  were king for  a day and  could bring                                                               
some  action in  the Upper  Cook Inlet  to deliver  more fish  to                                                               
competing demands, what would he do.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS  said he  assumed biologists would  do their  jobs and                                                               
that  there is  no one  answer to  that question.  It requires  a                                                               
long-term solution he added.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:32:03 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what would  happen to the escapement in Upper                                                               
Cook Inlet if it didn't have a commercial fishery this year.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS replied the Kasilof  and Kenai Rivers would have over-                                                               
escapement and they  have already seen the  escapement of roughly                                                               
700,000  fish per  year even  with the  commercial fishery.  This                                                               
amounts  to about  7  million fish  over the  last  10 years  and                                                               
around a  $40 million loss for  the Peninsula.  The  personal use                                                               
fishery has taken  300-400,000 fish; 10-11 percent  of the people                                                               
are actually  catching their limits.  He didn't think  that would                                                               
increase and too  many more people would seriously  beat down the                                                               
habitat. The  sport fishermen have  taken a quarter  million fish                                                               
out of Kenai even with an over-escapement of 300-400,000.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS  asked what  would  happen  to escapement  on  the                                                               
MacArthur, the  Beluga, the  Susitna and  the Yetna  drainages if                                                               
people didn't commercial fish for a year.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS replied  they would have an  escapement of 100-200,000                                                               
kings, another 40,000 sockeyes and another 40,000 coho.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:35:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER said  they should  be comparing  fishing to  the                                                               
Exxon oil spill in 1989 when not  even one drift gill net was put                                                               
in Cook Inlet. Those escapements on  the average don't show a lot                                                               
of difference.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:37:11 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS said he has heard  from a number of people on their                                                               
rationale  about the  value of  the fishery  and where  the money                                                               
lies. If  you're talking  to sports fishermen,  they say  if they                                                               
had more  fish in Upper  Susitna, the value  of the fish  is much                                                               
greater  than  it would  be  to  the  commercial fleet  based  on                                                               
tourists. Is that true?                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MORRIS replied  it's correct  in  many instances  especially                                                               
when you  look at the  money spent on  charter boats, but  on the                                                               
same token  they have to  look at losing $40-$45  million through                                                               
over-escaping commercial fisheries on the Peninsula.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:39:52 PM                                                                                                                    
HOWARD DELO, representing  himself, said he was  appointed to the                                                               
board a  year ago and supported  both Mr. Jensen and  Mr. Morris.                                                               
They  both  bring  a  vast   amount  of  knowledge  and  a  broad                                                               
perspective to  it. The board  is dealing with a  fully allocated                                                               
resource and the  members are very sincere in doing  what is best                                                               
for the resource.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:44:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the  board is balanced between sport and                                                               
commercial members.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MORRIS answered yes. People  have been given labels, but they                                                               
are not accurate or appropriate.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:47:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS moved  to send  both  names forward  to a  joint                                                               
session of the  legislature. There were no objections  and it was                                                               
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said  in accordance with AS 39.05.080  this did not                                                               
reflect an  intent by any of  the members to vote  for or against                                                               
the confirmation of the individuals during any further sessions.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER asked Mr. Delo  what he thought about the board's                                                               
three-year hearing rotation schedule since  most of the salmon it                                                               
deals with  are 2, 4 or  more than 4-year species  of fish. Would                                                               
it make more  sense to have the hearings on  a four-year rotation                                                               
and give the board a break for one year?                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DELO answered he didn't  disagree, but the current three-year                                                               
system  seems to  be working  now because  the board  can address                                                               
every  fishery in  the state  within  that time.  A longer  cycle                                                               
could make the meetings  go for as much as a  month and he wasn't                                                               
sure that would be a reprieve  for the board members. Many of the                                                               
board members  work for  a living  and it could  make it  hard to                                                               
find enough people available to sit on the board.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:51:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER said the reason he asked is he thought a four-                                                                  
year process would  give them an idea of the  four-year fish that                                                               
are coming back.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:52:49 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked everyone for  their comments and finding no                                                               
further business to  come before the committee,  he adjourned the                                                               
meeting at 5:52:59 PM.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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